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I have flagged several clear attempts at providing an answer in a comment. These are all at least as egregious as previous flags that were marked "helpful" and that resulted in deletion of the improper comment. I am not flagging content on the margin.

In the past day, however, all of these flags were declined. This has never happened before. Until then, almost all of my flags for this reason were handled as "helpful."

As a reminder, the purpose of comments is here: https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/comment

Has the moderation team taken an unannounced new tack since yesterday? It's okay if the team runs things inconsistent with the site-wide comment policy, but if it is, it should make it clear that it is intentionally deviating from that policy, since this would be an unexpected move.

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    I've been seeing comments disappear much more swiftly in the past couple days.
    – Scott Rowe
    Commented Sep 14 at 0:20
  • And egregiously breaking threads of discussion into meaningless blobs of text @ScottRowe. Including on meta out here, which I take to be mods tightening the screws on orwellian parameters of perimeter.Oh well ...
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 14 at 1:55
  • Flagged this question as a near/duplicate of this older one. I invite readers to read both and decide which flavor makes more sense for phil-SE
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 14 at 5:27
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    Questions should be answered with answers - not comments. Comments are a waste of time unless they seek to improve the question.
    – Meanach
    Commented Sep 14 at 5:58
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    @Meanach Does your contribution above, fit the specification of (meta)-answer or (meta)-comment? Sorry if my comment sounds acerbic but the problem is not in the dictionary not synonymizing "answer" & "comment". It is that the mandarin and executors of the law violate the law themselves.
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 14 at 6:48
  • Can any of the comments here be construed as answers? (The question mark obviously precludes my comment.)
    – Gerry
    Commented Sep 20 at 11:45

6 Answers 6

Reset to default
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Here's my take on the matter:

  • Comments are not meant to be used to answer, even partially
  • Comments are not meant to remain permanently
  • Hence, content in comments should not be retained just because it seems helpful in its own right
  • Users who do this on a regular basis will never change their behaviour if we don't do anything about it
  • Hence, the moderation policy should be to delete all comments that do not serve the purpose of improving the post, not least because it is network-wide policy and integral to the idea of how SE is supposed to work like

Moderators are not in a position to put themselves above these rules just because they think another take on the matter would be more appropriate for the subject.

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    Pls see my "Conifold-addition" below. Im sure Ive seen (multiple occasions?) you ask him to move a comment to an answer. I dont think Ive ever seen him obey. Ive certainly asked. Options: (1) You should carry out what you say if following rules rule! (2) You should not if quality content matters. (3) Ive seen a 3rd option a few days ago as reported of Math-SE: (a) Move it to an answer (b)CW it (c) Attribute to the commenter
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 12 at 14:35
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    @Rushi So did I, and I think it's sad since the comments almost all would be upvoted answers. Still, we can't just make exceptions because we like the content
    – Philip Klöcking Mod
    Commented Sep 12 at 14:37
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    @Rushi As a matter of fact, everyone could copy-paste these comments and repost them as answer with due attribution. I think Conifold even wrote that's how they'd like it done (bc they don't care about the rep) years ago.
    – Philip Klöcking Mod
    Commented Sep 12 at 14:41
  • Well then we need a site-wide "Conifold-mowing" summer camp 😆. Ok I am joking. But there is a serious point behind it. Conifold is justified because among other things you mods (Sorry!!!) are not consistent. On one hand you say answers should not be in comments. OTOH you convert answers you (more likely someone who flags) doesnt like into comments.
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 12 at 14:45
  • Ok you (Geoffrey) undeleted this answer after I raised it here. But the absurd comment it was converted to remains. Sorry if I seem vindictive for not quietly deleting it myself — I just saw that the answer is undeleted
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 12 at 14:48
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    In future I'll leave those flags to you, Philip. It is not my intention to conflict with other moderators, only not to be deletionist myself.
    – causative Mod
    Commented Sep 12 at 16:54
  • @causative Just to let you know: You were the top of my election choices (yeah there were others) And of all the pros & cons I decided (after a number of times changing the preference sequence) that being non deletionist matters more than all other considerations. I hope you will at least be open to the possibility that there were others of your voters who voted you for similar reasons. So I would wish that before laying off you at least check with others.
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 12 at 17:27
  • I know @PhilipKlöcking that SE can be as ruthless as its senseless — as monica cello discovered 4 years ago. I keep this in mind when I write the above to Causative. I know that mods, sandwiched between SE authorities and users are really between a rock and a hard place
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 12 at 17:30
  • @causative For what it's worth, you could also handle "too chatty" (or other) comment flags by moving comments to chat. That respects the stated purpose of comments without deleting things, and that's probably the best course of action if you think some comments are useful but they aren't requesting clarification, providing constructive criticism or adding relevant transient information. But that's obviously not going to apply in every situation.
    – NotThatGuy
    Commented Sep 13 at 3:00
  • This explication of policy should be in the FAQ. It's good stuff and explains why you often delete comments, and some users might take that personally.
    – J D
    Commented Sep 13 at 14:28
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    Couldn't comments simply drop off automatically after 12 hours? Or 24 or whatever but why keep them? Moving to chat is vastly worse than having them disappear. (Unless you let me delete things from chat.) The very nature of 'chat' is even more ephemeral than a posted comment, and yet SE does it exactly backwards. One idea is to take a broad view of what "improving the post" means. Just sayin'
    – Scott Rowe
    Commented Sep 14 at 0:13
  • @ScottRowe Yeah chat is broken by design. It's an euphemism for "Get outta here! (And I'm super polite)" Comments are broken by happenstance — the mismatch between the modus vivendi of hard areas like CS, stackoverflow and soft like philosophy
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 14 at 3:53
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    @ScottRowe If you want to leave a comment that only sticks around for 12 hours, maybe you shouldn't be leaving a comment. There are useful notes and criticisms and discussions and so on in the comments, which have long-term value - maybe none of those should be there, but they are, and maybe they should be incorporated into posts, but they often aren't, and moderators presumably have the ability to move them to chat for exactly that reason.
    – NotThatGuy
    Commented Sep 14 at 5:34
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So I understand why it would be beneficial to have actual answers, rather than just "answers in comments."

As a partial counterweight, though, I think that sometimes, people put down comments because they feel like they have something valuable to contribute, but they don't feel like the idea has fully crystalized in their minds. Comments then become a kind of "staging ground" where people throw in their "raw ore," with the hopes that others will come after them, combining and refining the raw ideas, and forming them into a solid answer. Maybe in some ways, that's unique to philosophy because of the conceptual precision sought. My only concern would be that if the "no-answers-in-comments" policy were ever to become too wooden, then some people with valuable insights may simply not share them at all, feeling that they are not good enough to be "answers" (even if they might be), yet unsuitable for comments either, and moving on before ever refining their insights to their own satisfaction.

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    That is a good point (+1), though after the idea crystalizes, the final state of the Q/A should be one where the comments are no longer needed (either because the answer didn't end up working out or it is now an answer, perhaps even accepted).
    – Hokon
    Commented Sep 12 at 18:08
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    @Hokon Good point, I agree about the final state of the Q/A needing to be in answers rather than in comments.
    – Peter Rankin
    Commented Sep 12 at 18:17
  • There was a time when SE was less legalisticalized than now. At which points mods — including a current one — were more open to being flexible. See noting that many respondents there were mods then. You will see that mods then not just agreed but articulated this — more reasonable and hands-off— position
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 13 at 2:38
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If a question can be answered in one or two short sentences, I often just post a comment. The poster gets the answer they asked for, and the rest of us usually don't even need to think about it. Yes that is an answer, and yes I did put it in comments ...

Note, I have seen mods convert short answers, sometime even answers with up to three paragraphs, into comments in multiple cases, so the anti-comment policy is far from universally practiced here.

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  • Upvoted. But note that "far from universally" is really an euphemism for "inconsistently". See the thread below Phil's answer
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 12 at 17:34
  • Another reason to answer in comments is because good questions are too often closed
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 12 at 17:42
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    There are cases where things that are posted as answers really should be a comment. That's what we got the flag and function for.
    – Philip Klöcking Mod
    Commented Sep 12 at 19:47
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    Right, it seems odd to say "don't put answers in comments", then answers get moved to comments. If something is not an answer, then apparently it doesn't belong anywhere, according to the guidelines.
    – Scott Rowe
    Commented Sep 14 at 0:07
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Comment that I was invited to make an answer:

I rarely write answers because I rarely have the references to back it up handy, and if the answer is inadequate it just gets downvoted and possibly removed. So I throw in what I think is a useful lead (or something amusing or topical) and hope it prompts someone with more time and interest to research the lead and do something with it. If I couldn't comment, I'd basically be 'lurking' and that's no fun so I wouldn't be here at all. This is my only social media so if not here I would probably... Take longer walks. And you wouldn't get any of my ideas.

And another one:

I think Rushi's distinction of SE as hard and soft subjects is useful. I mean, Wikipedia already exists, so we don't really need another site for long lasting curated authoritative answers. But wp would not be able to answer programming questions very quickly. We used to have big manuals, I once saw a 2 foot shelf of reference books for a machine about the same size. Soon we won't be programming, so even SE will disappear for that. Our opinions about Philosophy won't be relevant for long either, so why not allow people to participate, but not expect greatness from them?

Cheers!

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  • I rarely write answers because I rarely have the references to back it up handy, and if the answer is inadequate it just gets downvoted and possibly removed. The formidable (¿terrifying?) Conifold is identical. I'm just trying to highlight the double standards
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 14 at 13:29
  • Personally I'm no democrat (leave aside Democrat!) If Conifold is a law unto himself, I think that's just fine; the site will be the better for it. But can we nudge that a bit from de facto to de jure? Currently it's more like the so called »rules based order« as a replacement for international law
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 14 at 13:31
  • Here's a suggested refinement on All comments should disappeared in 24 hours. Instead how about All comments should disappeared in a time frame that the commenter chooses If instead of a time frame the commenter chooses When I please the SE system should intermittently bug the user Hey! Here's an old comment. Do you wish to answerify or else remove it? And when a user gets into Conifold league he gets the option to turn off pesky reminders. While this may seem far out I believe on one occasion I was prompted You have not upvoted a question in a long time. Would you like to?
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 14 at 13:42
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    @Rushi Conifold's comments usually come with relevant and recent articles or the distinct mentioning of a particular author's concept, both of which would be acceptable within the already lenient guidelines in the help center.
    – Philip Klöcking Mod
    Commented Sep 14 at 16:49
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It's good to discuss this. Repeating a comment(!¡!) I made here yesterday:

When the de jure and the de facto truths diverge significantly enough one has three options two kosher and one non kosher.

Kosher-1 Bend the de facto to the de jure — usually involves adding more enforcement to the (ineffective) legislation.

Kosher-2 Bend the de jure to the de facto by legalizing the status quo as legitimate.

Non kosher Pretend there is no divergence

A mod (the latest n greatest 😉) responded:

In practice, comments are usually used to discuss whatever comes to mind about the question, if it falls short of a full answer. I don't see that as a bad thing. The site would be boring without discussion.

FWIW I happen to agree both with the viewpoint of this questioner: Too much answering in comments is going on.

But also contrarywise: I think expecting a soft subject — like 1 philosophy here — to be as clearcut as the original stackoverflow and other hard subjects is unrealistic and unfair.

Good content in comments

Repeating another of my comments on the same thread:

Out here Conifold is more knowledgeable than anyone, And by a significant margin. And more and more his best answers are in pithy comments. Of course he's not the only one.

Old discussion

Here is an on the same subject. Interestingly it takes a more nuanced view than what we are seeing now

1 Here is my list of some examples of soft vs hard from SE sites. Making it in the hope that it will be realized that his issue is not a philosophy-alone issue but a general SE issue that divides hard subjects from soft ones

Hard Soft
Stackoverflow
Math
Superuser
English Language
English learners
Home improvement
Science Fiction
Software Engineering
Travel
Academia
Robotics
Mi Yodeya
Data Science
Raspberry Pi
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  • I also trust Causative (and all mods) to choose good sense and goodwill over mindless throwing of the rulebook. I've cited a bunch of other soft sites for good reason. [This comment was in response to a now deleted comment to the effect : I expect Causative to stick to the rules and not let their preferences sway]
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 12 at 13:58
  • Yeah... my memory is not perfect. "to the effect" means roughly approximately. Can do better in the face of a deleted comment that has already been addressed
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 12 at 14:14
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    Your kosher 1 should be "bend de facto to de jure", bugged me when you forst wrote it already
    – Philip Klöcking Mod
    Commented Sep 12 at 14:39
  • @PhilipKlöcking not sure I understand. Are you saying its not true? Or that it is and shouldnt be?
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 12 at 14:53
  • I have only participated on 'soft' sites, but people are not shy about downvoting and saying fairly critical things. Can't imagine what it is like on the 'hard' sites - no gloves at all I guess.
    – Scott Rowe
    Commented Sep 14 at 0:09
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    @ScottRowe Hard sites stay hard focused. The soft tend to tread on the wetware box atop our shoulders. Then ppl lose their equipoise. In that sense philosophy is like religion (and language) and unlike math or CS. Ppl will fight willynilly. Thats why the comment-policy that's fine in stackoverflow or math or askubuntu simply won't work here
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 14 at 17:05
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    The big shift happened in 2019 with the Monica Celio mess. Before that mods were unafraid to be interested philosophers (and good humans) and not throw the lawbook in place of finding common ground and actually solving issues. After Monica mods found out that their position is really invidious — ordinary users think them all powerful. The SE authorities can abuse them ad libitum and there's no recourse. So legalism has replaced good sense and goodwill
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 14 at 17:11
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    @Rushi That's twisting reality. Both virmaior, who served from the beginning, and commando (not surprisingly, two mods who actively contributed to academic philosophy) held the same stance that we should adhere to SE principles more rigorously exactly because as it is we continue to drive actual experts away with allowing for these hundreds of bad questions and voting opinions up way before the incident happened. I myself held this stance even before I became a mod in - what was it, 2016? Therefore, I think it is absolutely outrageous that you spread false information like that.
    – Philip Klöcking Mod
    Commented Sep 14 at 18:48
  • You're misunderstanding my point @PhilipKlöcking. Let me try again. Ordinary users believe that mods are more powerful than them — true. Also SE establishment is more powerful (and erratic) than mods — less well known but also true. The thing to add is that whereas a single ordinary user is no more value to SE than a couple of records in the DBMS, nary a blip, in larger numbers SE tends to fear users.
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 15 at 2:27
  • So if there is a request for change from a number of users — to start with on phil-SE but growing to more sites (i expect the soft-sites above) — there is a possibility of positive change
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 15 at 2:27
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    I cannot see any positivity in the SE sites losing their distinctiveness compared to reddit and other networks where everybody writes whatever comes up in their mind and votes are only about popularity of the opinion. I am absolutely convinced that the idea of StackExchange could work applied on the field of philosophy. People just tend to have very loose idea about what counts as philosophy - and I would include eastern writings explicitly - so that they feel entitled to write because they have an opinion, not because they know about existing approaches (which works for hard and soft)
    – Philip Klöcking Mod
    Commented Sep 15 at 15:04
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    To clarify: For me, eastern philosophy is part of the philosophical corpus. But on our site, people who have barely scratched the surface of any philosophical branch or time write as if their measily informed worldview would carry any weight (remember: experts answering your questions).
    – Philip Klöcking Mod
    Commented Sep 15 at 15:08
  • @PhilipKlöcking Eastern philosophy is part of the focus. Do the statistics of phil-SE bear that out? tsundoku recently posted a tag comparison
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 15 at 15:17
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    What do you expect to see in these statistics? I guess in the western world there are much more people with English skills on the level required to participate on this (English-speaking) network plus western philosophy is quite popular in Asian countries plus questions on Asian philosophy tend to be asked and answered (probably better than here) in their native languages. Thus, it is not surprising to see dominant statistics. That does not equate with a bias of those who participate against eastern philosophy IMHO. Considering the quality of translations, there's a lot despite that here.
    – Philip Klöcking Mod
    Commented Sep 15 at 15:58
  • Dunno why you're obfuscating categories @PhilipKlöcking. Christian — non-christian; eastern — western; English — other languages. The thesis I am pushing is that anything that claims to be western will willynilly have a Christian provenance. Of course anglophone bias is also a thing but I've no (computable) suggesyion of moving this site from English speaking to everything speaking. In due course Google translate may make that feasibl — a story for a a future time
    – Rushi
    Commented Sep 16 at 2:01
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Since we are now in a phase where comments are more aggressively being removed. I'm copying a comment thread from this recently closed and reopened question that is germane to this discussion

To all close voters -- it was amazingly simple to remove the request for opinions, and recast as a question about sociological facts. SE policy is to edit rather than close a question which it is simple to bring into site compliance.
Dcleve

@Dcleve I wonder if you're familiar with Mr. Bumble from Dickens Oliver Twist? Ideally teachers need to (1) teach and correct (2) evaluate (3) grade (4) filter out the hopeless cases. In decreasing order of priority. The Mr. Bumbles only punish and tighten the screws of the in group. Unfortunately they tend to win out out here. And I can bet this comment will "be disappeared" within 24 hours.

In the more enlightened education systems — Socrates to Montessori — "correct" would have priority over "teach" in the sense that the subject matter is very much in the student's ambit of choice. Correction however may be required in the sense of putting a derailed approach/methodology back on track. Here instead we put closing first at the faintest trace of unsophistication.
Rushi

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